by Elizabeth Stanard

Organization

Elizabeth: Tell me about your organization.

PG): Epistrophy Arts is a grass roots organization dedicated to presenting the finest in ccmusic or avant-garde jazz, as it's sometimes known. We seek to widen the avenues of cultural expression Austin by presenting concerts and sponsoring lectures by internationally recognized artists who deal with jazz creatively. And we've done 25 jazz concerts since January of 1998 (when Epistrophy Arts was established). And for the first two years we were funded entirely from the door. And just this year we started receiving money from Cultural Contracts, the Arts Commission at the City of Austin, and that sort of helped us extend our reach a little bit and do some more radical stuff than we've been able to do in the past. And in general, we just have a crew of volunteers. It's basically me and about three other people who help with the events. It's more like a labor of love than say a career plan. I don't see how I could make a living doing this kind of music.

Music

ADA: So what differentiates what you call improvised music or avant-garde music from traditional jazz?

PG: The current jazz mainstream is sort of working out of a development of the early 1960s and bebop and hard bop. That is the music that has stuck since then and it's been defined as mainstream jazz. But the artists who looked beyond that and shattered conventional norms, did different things with rhythm and extended the harmonic range or created sounds that you could incorporate into a performance, things that might be considered noise or whatever. That's the heart of what we like to do, is to have musicians who improvise without any preconceived patterns.

The jazz establishment, quote unquote, here in Austin, I don't know if they know anything about what we're doing or are concerned with it at all. I'm speaking mainly of the UT Jazz Studies Program and the musicians who play around the Elephant Room. I've tried to get some of the artists to do lectures, but they don't seem too interested. It doesn't fit in maybe with their program, which is teaching the rudiments of jazz -- 1950's hard bop mold, I guess. But the Jazz Academy is also sort of fixated on a specific historical period in the music and not really looking beyond that.

ADA: So how would you differentiate and draw parallels between the type of music that Epistrophy Arts presents as opposed to say, if I went to a Medeski, Martin and Wood concert, who also seemingly kind of improvise?

PG: With the example of Medeski, Martin and Wood, they occasionally play improvised music. What we're doing is on the fringes of that. But they choose to play maybe a more, and I don't mean this in any kind of derogatory way, but in a more popular kind of music with grooves and with a sort of more dance-oriented music but with improv music, improvised solos and extended solos and that kind of thing. But basically the musicians in the scene that we've been working with represent the vanguard, the cutting edge. Medeski, Martin, Wood... they've done a lot for improvised music, but they do it a little bit different because they're trying to go for a more wide appeal.

Musicians

ADA: And generally if you have a concert, how many people might you have playing instruments?

PG: Solo performance is the most practical and economical. But generally duos and trios and occasionally a quartet.

ADA: Do your musicians get paid when they perform?

PG: Yeah. They get paid very well, and we pay them the bulk of the door if not more. Professional musicians who travel all over the world and have to negotiate their fee in advance. We pay them as good or better than any other place in the US so I've come to realize recently. But that's fine because the money should go to the artists. And I want to develop relationships with these musicians so they'll come back and do workshops and just interact with the community, more like bring 'em to the schools and that kind of thing. I think a lot of these musicians could communicate a lot more than with just the music.

ADA: Do most of the musicians playing at your concerts dabble in a lot of different musical genres, or do they ever play in more traditional jazz settings?

PG: Well there's an international community of improvising musicians playing, a very active community. And they're from mostly Europe, the United States, Japan. Some of them have hard set rules about, like they'll only play free improvised music. Some are more open. I don't like to say that we're different from jazz because I think jazz is a very contentious word. But the word "improvised music" is more broad and general. It's just a big wide open field. Still there's a lot of quote unquote traditional jazz performers who want to present with us who are really trying to figure out how to get here or be involved in presenting the music.

ADA: What venues do you generally hold your concerts in?

PG: We rent non-traditional spaces, art galleries, churches, record stores. Our first few concerts were at 33 Degrees record store. Then, after that I've used First Unitarian Universalist Church, and the one we've used the most is Ceremony Hall on 41st and Red River. It's part of the Syriat at Munundah Memorial School. And then the last concert we did, we did at the ACA Gallery at [GuadalupeArts]. So yeah, just in general, I look for venues that are quote unquote nontraditional so we can have an all ages concert where people can focus and listen and not be distracted.

I don't like to use nightclubs and bars that much, although I have done that, just because this kind of music is more demanding and the main attraction. In a nightclub or bar with people, they have cash registers going and are trying to sell beer. And jazz is something that takes a little more effort on the part of the listener and the fan. It's not gonna make anyone rich. It takes a real risk to present something, an art music in a rock club when you're trying to sell drinks. Few clubs really fulfill that cultural imperative in trying to do something really important just because it needs to be heard and not because it's gonna make a lot of money in bar sales. I don't see it -- avant garde jazz -- as commodifiable at all. It's not something that can be watered down. This kind of culture is best left in the hands of people who care about it and nurture it and want it.

It would be great to find a multi-use arts space. I think there's still a need for something that would do dance and performance and performance art, theater, music and all that, just a few different groups that could co-op. What I would like to do is to be able to present this music on its own terms without having any artistic compromise at all, where artists could do exactly what they wanted to do. I would like to keep it as independent as possible.

Audience

ADA: Where did your local or national fan base come from?

PG: I think the bulk of it are indie rock fans who listen to the more adventurous indie rock, and maybe they've grown kind of tired of it and a little bored. And they like that energy, that visceral quality in jazz and creative improvised music. The crowds are always strong, really good. The reception has been great, people connect with it. As abstract and weird as it gets, when you see it performed well and you're in the presence of the artist, you really understand what's going on. You see the communication, the interaction, the sort of going beyond tunes and whatever set rhythms. Some people are afraid that they have to know the whole history of the music and know the developments of the history of jazz. And I think that that's an attitude in in jazz that's sort of been perpetuating kind of the snobby attitude. But if you see any good music performed well, you're going to get it.

You gotta figure out a way to get the young people to come to the concerts 'cause that keeps the music alive and that's the future of the music. And one way to do that is with the lower ticket prices. You have to have student prices, or at least prices that they can afford. For culture, they don't want to spend as much, and you have to keep ticket prices low and afffordable and to develop new audiences.

ADA: How do you get your audiences?

PG: The press has slowly been getting a little more involved in writing a little more about our events. So that's helped a lot. And the independent record stores in town have been really good. 33 Degrees, Waterloo and Sound Exchange. They sell the records. They've had them for years. And also here at UT, a lot of students who, -- you know've been all over the world and seen this music -- they're aware of it. And then also email has just been crucial. We've developed an email list of about 400 names, and there's a few radio outlets for this music. KVRX has a really good avant garde jazz show on Monday night, I host a program on Co-op on Fridays from noon to two. But, word of mouth would have to be the biggest thing that keeps us going 'cause another thing that I've noticed is that the audiences change a lot. Always, there the biggest thing that keeps us going, 'cause another thing that I've noticed is that the audiences change a lot. Always, there's a lot of turnover, I guess I'd call it.

For a complete listing of Epistrophy Arts events, check out their website at epistrophyarts.org.